Curse

holababe · Oct 11, 2007, 11:11 PM // 23:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

You asked about the permissability of this project, and I'd like to respond:

With any project of the nature of this server emulator, the primary concern of the game developer is piracy. Our view on this project is that it must assure that the emulator can only possibly be used by people who own a legitimate copy of Guild Wars and that those using the server emulator have access only to the content that they have purchased. For instance, users should not be able to access maps, professions, skills, or any other content from a campaign they do not own. If at any time we find that the emulator is being used for piracy or to access official Guild Wars content that was not purchased through NCsoft or ArenaNet, we will pursue its closure.

ANET 'supports' it as long as it doesn't allow players to access content they haven't paid for.

Phaern Majes · Oct 11, 2007, 11:12 PM // 23:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ajaala

The information gathered is just that, information. It is not code. Of course we need information in order to develop a working server.

The copyright covers more than just the "code" it covers all ideas, artwork, accounts, info and etc regarding GW as well.

Lonesamurai · Oct 11, 2007, 11:12 PM // 23:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by holababe

ANET 'supports' it as long as it doesn't allow players to access content they haven't paid for.

Source of quote?

Ajaala · Oct 11, 2007, 11:13 PM // 23:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lonesamurai

And the difference is?

Its still Unofficial and as such (from my obviously limited ability to read the EULA) a breach of the agreed rules to owning an account

There is a huge huge difference, stealing a server is simply that, stealing, theft. A server is copyrighted work. We are not stealing a server, we're writing our own, the software is completely our own. The client just talks to it, we do not even modify the client.

holababe · Oct 11, 2007, 11:13 PM // 23:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lonesamurai

Source of quote?

The other thread.
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...0205152&page=3

Mineria · Oct 11, 2007, 11:18 PM // 23:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by unienaule

Mineria, if you have no idea what is going on and haven't heard of this before, do some research and come back before acting like you know what the story is.

Don't n00b me will you?
I think I know a bit more about client/server projects and the legal rights, then what you are aware of.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ajaala

Lineage2 servers were actually run using the original Lineage2 server program, it was stolen. This is a very different matter to what we're doing here. Our server is built from scratch.

I'm totally aware of that your server is build from scratch.
So is L2J, it is a server written in Java from scratch, to which you can connect to with the download able official Lineage 2 client.

But here comes the twist.
The server is legal, since it is written from scratch.
Using the client to connect to it is not.
Neither is it to use a packet sniffer to gain info between the client and server.

But you are saying: There is no risk. Good.

Show me the legal rights I got as players, that ensure me not getting banned for using your tool.
Not just there is no risk, I want to see it documented.

Silly Warrior · Oct 11, 2007, 11:19 PM // 23:19

The only reason its been approved by Guru Mods is that we don't know if its legal either!

That said, I think its cool ^_^.

Phaern Majes · Oct 11, 2007, 11:23 PM // 23:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ajaala

There is a huge huge difference, stealing a server is simply that, stealing, theft. A server is copyrighted work. We are not stealing a server, we're writing our own, the software is completely our own. The client just talks to it, we do not even modify the client.

But you're still basing that server on info your taking from the original GW. Maybe that isn't a direct violation of the copyright (though it might be), but it doesn't sit well with me. However, as you stated the choice is mine, and I will admit I do think the risk to anyone helping may be minimal (I won't say non-existent). I say minimal because as you pointed out the only way they'll probably know you used it is if you admit it to someone. Or I don't know if they subpoena you and see who helped you, and then ban everyone. But like you said if they don't see it why not? I mean if nobody saw me drunk and driving, and if nobody saw me going 80 mph, and if nobody sees me hit that homeless guy.... I still doubt the legality of the project, but as Gaile stated they'll shut you down if they feel you guys crossed the line.

That said I just hope people don't come here complaining should they get banned or sued or whatever. Though somehow, I think they might.

holababe · Oct 11, 2007, 11:23 PM // 23:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mineria

But here comes the twist.
The server is legal, since it is written from scratch.
Using the client to connect to it is not.
Neither is it to use a packet sniffer to gain info between the client and server.

ANET appear to be allowing it, similar to their treatment of texmod and the program that loads 2 GW's.

Most likely they will neither condemn nor condone and refuse to offer support for it.

Antheus · Oct 11, 2007, 11:23 PM // 23:23

Quote:

But here comes the twist.
The server is legal, since it is written from scratch.
Using the client to connect to it is not.
Neither is it to use a packet sniffer to gain info between the client and server.

Using sniffer is only against the terms of EULA, so if they figure out who is using it, can have their account banned - but not a single thing more.

It is however not illegal under any law, not even under DMCA, as proven in the bnetd court case.

Everything else falls under EULA as well - worst case scenario - you have your account banned.

Piracy however, is a big no-no. Do that, and you will lose in court, as, once again, proven by bnetd.

Ajaala · Oct 11, 2007, 11:23 PM // 23:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mineria

I'm totally aware of that your server is build from scratch.
So is L2J, it is a server written in Java from scratch, to which you can connect to with the download able official Lineage 2 client.

There are some Lineage servers built from scratch, yes. However the most functional are actually built on stolen software, directly from the developers. I believe these, and the nature of the servers (entirely built to circumvent paying fees) is what lead to the "lineage 2 fiasco".

Quote:

But here comes the twist.
The server is legal, since it is written from scratch.
Using the client to connect to it is not.
Neither is it to use a packet sniffer to gain info between the client and server.

Whilst it may be against the EULA (most things are!) that does not make it illegal.

Age · Oct 11, 2007, 11:41 PM // 23:41

You mean you want me to pay to play on your servers?What do you do you do to get all the info that is in the database?

VanDamselx · Oct 11, 2007, 11:42 PM // 23:42

Quote:

Originally posted by Gaile Gray

You asked about the permissability of this project, and I'd like to respond:

With any project of the nature of this server emulator, the primary concern of the game developer is piracy. Our view on this project is that it must assure that the emulator can only possibly be used by people who own a legitimate copy of Guild Wars and that those using the server emulator have access only to the content that they have purchased. For instance, users should not be able to access maps, professions, skills, or any other content from a campaign they do not own. If at any time we find that the emulator is being used for piracy or to access official Guild Wars content that was not purchased through NCsoft or ArenaNet, we will pursue its closure.

Quote:

Originally posted by Gaile Gray

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mineria
So you are saying that this server is controlled or authorized by NC Interactive or its designees? :O

No, not at all. I am saying that we have, at other times, taken the stance that we will not take action (even though legally allowed) if there is only good for the community, and nothing whatsoever bad for the community or the company. That would be, by definition, different than straight-out "permission" and it's certainly not meant to imply ownership, approval, or endorsement of the project. It's simply saying that we're aware of the project and do not, at this time, choose to exercise the option to pursue its termination, because we believe it has either a positive or a benign impact on both the community and the company.

Isn't that enough for people to understand the legality of this project?

VanDamselx · Oct 11, 2007, 11:42 PM // 23:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

You mean you want me to pay to play on your servers?What do you do you do to get all the info that is in the database?

I think what it means is: 'pay' is that you have to have a legitimate Guild Wars account, one that you already paid for. You can't have a pirated account.

AlienFromBeyond · Oct 11, 2007, 11:46 PM // 23:46

Hmm, it'll give me something to do when I'm bored. Just going around the map zoning into every outpost and zone, lol. Definitely not up to doing it with all the dungeons or primary quests from GWEN.

Ghost Recon · Oct 11, 2007, 11:51 PM // 23:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by booooYA

I think what it means is: 'pay' is that you have to have a legitimate Guild Wars account, one that you already paid for. You can't have a pirated account.

Which is something 'at this time' you can't stop and which could be the downfall of this project.

EDIT:

To clarify

"something" as in the fact you could technically download the GW client from the guild wars website, then use the private server therefore anet are losing out.

VanDamselx · Oct 11, 2007, 11:53 PM // 23:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghost Recon

Which is something 'at this time' you can't stop and which could be the downfall of this project.

I'm sorry but I'm not understanding why this would be a downfall.

,
Edit: Oh never mind, I understand. You should really specify what 'something' is

While I can see why pirating could be a concern. I think it would be one thing if they were giving out pirated accounts or endorsed it. The message is clear that they don't want pirating by any means. Meh, I dunno. This is such a gray area...

Ghost Recon · Oct 11, 2007, 11:56 PM // 23:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by booooYA

I'm sorry but I'm not understanding why this would be a downfall.

Edit: Oh never mind, I understand. You should really specify what 'something' is

Sorry for the confusion

Ajaala · Oct 12, 2007, 12:08 AM // 00:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghost Recon

Which is something 'at this time' you can't stop and which could be the downfall of this project.

EDIT:

To clarify

"something" as in the fact you could technically download the GW client from the guild wars website, then use the private server therefore anet are losing out.

We can stop it at this time, because the server is not publicly available. If someone is playing on a private server at this time, it is not ours.

Ajaala · Oct 12, 2007, 12:08 AM // 00:08

I'd like to post a comment from the project lead for you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GWLP Project Leader

GWLP is being developed with existing players in mind, as such we do not aim nor condone copying or emulating the Guild Wars plot, storyline, missions, quests, NPC layouts and so on. Instead we aim to allow users to develop their own quests, their own missions, their own Guild Wars themed sandbox. Our server will be in no way a replacement for the official server, even if players who did not own the official chapters were to play on it, they would not be playing Guild Wars or taking part in the Guild Wars experience.
That said, we plan to implement an authorization system that allows players access to only the content they have purchased. The authorization system will run in the background when you log into your official account, it will monitor incoming packets and read what you have access too on your account. It then encrypts this information and sends it to the server you wish to play on, the server immediately stores it in the database and allows you to use only the content that you own. The data that is gathered for authorizing a player can in no way be used to find that person's official account.

This project is being developed by and for Guild Wars fans, we hold both ArenaNet and Guild Wars in high regard and would hate to harm the community in any way. We believe our project to be only beneficial and not at all a substitute for playing on the live servers. We hope to maintain a good relationship with ArenaNet.